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War!
March 20th 2003, 14:13 CET by Matt Davis

According to various news sources, war has already started with special forces fighting in the southern part of iraq.
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#5 by Gunp01nt
2003-03-20 14:33:41
supersimon33@hotmail.com
the topic title lacks two characters. can you guess which?

also, I'm puzzled about the damage reports I read on CNN, apparently American cruise missiles killed 10 Iraqi, but how can they know that for sure if they can't send someone up there to do a body count?

also: media bias!
CNN says (summary by me):
Scud missile intercepted by Patriot missile!
oh yeah, and a couple of others hit dirt, nothing to worry about


Dutch news site Nu.nl says (again summary by me):
Six scud missiles were fired on Kuwait by Iraqi forces. 4 missiles hit the ground in the vicinity of the main command and logistic center of the American forces around Iraq.
Two missiles were intercepted by Patriot missiles.


not that that's anything to be surprised about.


other than that, I'll start caring about this war when things look to get really out of hand. I don't see that happening yet, as there's been a minimal response to the first US attacks.

Yo mama's so fat, all the restaurants in town have signs that says: "Maximum Occupancy: 240 Patrons OR Yo Mama"
#6 by Matt Davis
2003-03-20 14:37:14
http://looroll.com
A handy 'at a glance' page

Troll, troll, troll your post, gently down the page...
#7 by Russ
2003-03-20 14:49:23
Who was that guy who looks like Saddam's older brother? Never mind, just tell me when it's over so we can get back to our sex scandals. Blah.

There's two kinds of people in the world. People with guns and people who dig.
#8 by jjohnsen
2003-03-20 15:07:11
http://www.johnsenclan.com
amn, now I know why war is so expensive.
From CNN
fired more than 40 satellite-guided Tomahawk cruise missiles, military officials said

and then
U.S. government officials said a private home outside Baghdad had been targeted after intelligence indicated "some optimism" about the location of top Iraqi leadership -- including Saddam.

and tehn
The Red Cross reported that one person was killed and 14 people were injured in the strikes.


40 missiles to kill one guy?  Can't my tax dollars build a missile that kills more than one guy at a time?

He and his girlfriend are making out in his car in a trailer park, when he suddenly has to run to an outhouse to make an emergency, uh... deposit.
#9 by Gunp01nt
2003-03-20 15:08:38
supersimon33@hotmail.com
I guess you're not paying enough.

Yo mama's so fat, all the restaurants in town have signs that says: "Maximum Occupancy: 240 Patrons OR Yo Mama"
#10 by Ashiran
2003-03-20 15:15:38
Trying to avoid civilian deaths kinda blunts the effectivness of any weapon.

"Not wearing pants and nobody knows but you."
#11 by Greg
2003-03-20 15:17:55
#5 Gunp01nt


also: media bias!
CNN says (summary by me):
Scud missile intercepted by Patriot missile!
oh yeah, and a couple of others hit dirt, nothing to worry about

Wow, that isn't the story that CNN tells me.

blah blah bleh
#12 by jjohnsen
2003-03-20 15:20:48
http://www.johnsenclan.com
I thought it was interesting last night.  When the missiles started Dan Rather came on, after a minute or two he cut to a guy stationed with some soldiers, but before letting him talk he said to us "keep in mind that everything so-and-so says is okayed by the U.S. military".

It was just nice of them to tell us stuff was being censored, I wish all news sources did that.

He and his girlfriend are making out in his car in a trailer park, when he suddenly has to run to an outhouse to make an emergency, uh... deposit.
#13 by Warren Marshall
2003-03-20 15:23:16
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
They have to filter what the soldiers say though.  It's understandable, the enemy can see the same broadcast ...
#14 by Matt Perkins
2003-03-20 15:29:32
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Warren Marshall #13
They have to filter what the soldiers say though.  It's understandable, the enemy can see the same broadcast ...

Yeah, I'm sure that's the only thing they censor on the news.

"It's all fair game once you click "post", mind you." - Bailey
#15 by LPMiller
2003-03-20 15:31:55
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Where is my damn tinfoil hat?

I believe I can fly......urk.
#16 by LPMiller
2003-03-20 15:34:24
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
You know, the patriot missile system gets a lot of unfair guff in my book. Sure, it isn't 100 percent effective, but c'mon:

1) there isn't anything else out there that intercepts ANY missiles, period.
2) This is first generation tech, so the fact that it hits anything is pretty cool, actually
3) this isn't quite the same system in place 12 years ago - it SHOULD be a bit more effective - we'll know AFTER the war.
4) I'd like one at my house, to intercept trick or treaters and the occasional Jesuit.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#17 by Matt Perkins
2003-03-20 15:35:47
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
LPMiller #15
Where is my damn tinfoil hat?

You can borrow my extra "I'm a damn cynic" t-shirt.

"It's all fair game once you click "post", mind you." - Bailey
#18 by LPMiller
2003-03-20 15:38:53
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
It's not the same.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#19 by Hugin
2003-03-20 15:46:48
lmccain@nber.org
I agree with Warren in this case.  These reporters are traveling with military units, they're on military bases, this stuff is being broadcast live, watching what you show or say is important.  DO I think the military attempts to control the flow of information so as to minimize negatives?  Yes, of course.  But in some cases we have to bow to practicality.  High quality information and useful analysis isn't going to be happening in real time, and there's simply going to be stuff going on we won't know, we can't know right now.  It's a war, and shockingly, the government has the right and the responsibility to keep certain secrets from the people, at least temporarily.
#20 by Dethstryk
2003-03-20 16:03:45
jemartin@tcainternet.com
I find it humorous that it looks like Iraq fired a SCUD missile at our troops.

"And I'm saying without a relationship with God and those strong convictions HE put in me I wouldn't be a 42 year old who hasn't had sex with anyone today."
#21 by MCorleone
2003-03-20 16:22:01
I watched a special a couple of months ago, Dateline or something, on the Patriot - The Israelis have a countermeasure system that is 90% effective and the stories the news told you about the Patriot during Desert Storm were wrong.  Someone in the military is driving the Patriot bus even though it is only 10% effective.  Israeli sentiment was "Uh, yeah, thanks, keep your Patriots..."

Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules.
#22 by MCorleone
2003-03-20 16:24:22
From here:  

The second look was even less flattering to the Patriot missile system that the U.S. deployed to shoot down the Iraqi Scuds. In February 1991, then-President Bush claimed the Patriots had downed 41 of 42 Scud missiles fired during the war.

But an exhaustive study by Theodore Postol, a professor of science, technology and national security policy at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, later found no evidence that a Patriot had disabled the warhead on any Scud missile. "There were three cases where damage was done to the airframe of Scuds, but in all three cases the warheads went on undamaged," said Postol. "So basically there are no cases that we studied--and we had three-quarters of the engagements on film--where we saw evidence of a destruction of the Scud warhead."

Later, William S. Cohen, the Defense secretary under President Clinton, acknowledged that the Gulf War-era Patriot missile "didn't work."

Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules.
#23 by Trolly McTroll
2003-03-20 16:32:54
Is Saddam Dead? Was that guy in the film really him last night?  Many experts don't think so. I searched image archives for a photo from tonight and an older photo of Hussein for comparison:

Last Night after his house was bombed, and a previous photo of Saddam

It would be a quick war If they got him last night.

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - Wudi
#24 by Dethstryk
2003-03-20 16:38:21
jemartin@tcainternet.com
MCorleone

Weapon technology has improved drastically since we were last in the theater. I don't see what the point is in talking about the failures of the Patriot now. We already knocked down one SCUD with a Patriot in this war. (Oh, Saddam doesn't have SCUDs, whoops..)

"And I'm saying without a relationship with God and those strong convictions HE put in me I wouldn't be a 42 year old who hasn't had sex with anyone today."
#25 by Dethstryk
2003-03-20 16:42:30
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Ah, fuck. The Pentagon has confirmed that two of the oil fields have been set ablaze by the Iraqis. Idiots.

"And I'm saying without a relationship with God and those strong convictions HE put in me I wouldn't be a 42 year old who hasn't had sex with anyone today."
#26 by Trolly McTroll
2003-03-20 16:47:21
What's the point of setting the oil on fire?

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - Wudi
#27 by Trolly McTroll
2003-03-20 16:49:29
I am being told by several senior officials not to take that taped speech Saddam gave last night as proof that he survived the attack," CBS NEWS reporter David Martin said on air.

"They say the evidence that put him in the bunker last night was very reliable, and they are confident that the cruise missiles and bunker-busting bombs that were fired at that bunker last night hit the target. So now, intelligence experts are studying the tape to determine if it is really Saddam, or a body double which he is known to use from time to time. And they are running a computerized voice analysis, comparing that speech with known recordings of Saddam's voice. But that's a process that takes awhile. So we may not have a quick answer."

CBS adds that there is "is considerable belief in this government that they may, in fact, have gotten Saddam."

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - Wudi
#28 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-03-20 16:49:47
erictcheng@hotmail.com
<sarcasm>It means contracts for Halliburton and other companies rebuild Iraq's oilfields... </sarcasm>

Kilt Wearing Pixel Pushing Monkey Boy
IMDB Entry
DVD Collection
#29 by Wintermute
2003-03-20 16:56:45
lucid@evilemail.com
We already knocked down one SCUD with a Patriot in this war.


Apparently shot down quite a few last time, too.

See also:

3) this isn't quite the same system in place 12 years ago - it SHOULD be a bit more effective - we'll know AFTER the war.
#30 by Trolly McTroll
2003-03-20 17:03:35
US Troops Told to Be Combat-Ready by 11:30 a.m. EST

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - Wudi
#31 by Your Friend
2003-03-20 17:09:40
To reiterate, I'm against the war..

But I've got to say, complaining about news 'censorship' is pretty fucking stupid.  The journalist, if left unchecked, could very possibly try to 'scoop' his or her peers by using inside information overheard while living with the troops.  The journalist would do it for ratings but the result could easily be a nice lat/lon pair for the enemy to use in placing a missile right in the middle of a group of our soldiers.  And though I'm against the war, I am absolutely not in favor of having lots of american soldiers die to prove my side of the argument.  

In a time of war there absolutely should be a degree of temporary censorship, at least while the actions are in progress.  If the military tries to censor journalists who were over there once the war is no longer hot... sure complain then, but not now, or you look like some kind of fucking shithead...all IMO of course.

2000/XP is better than Win9x in every way.
#32 by Battle-Dwarf
2003-03-20 17:11:32
www.myspace.com/OlSchoolMedia
The Imperial  fleet

Looks like Luke dropped a pair of photons into one of the exhaust  ports.


For the record, I wanted to add that I still believe that a nationwide draft could've alleviated the financial,  moral & patriotic burden this invasion is bringing on the US.

This whole affair seems very, very wrong.

The Male Battle-Dwarf
#33 by Battle-Dwarf
2003-03-20 17:12:46
www.myspace.com/OlSchoolMedia
And the world.

The Male Battle-Dwarf
#34 by Battle-Dwarf
2003-03-20 17:14:30
www.myspace.com/OlSchoolMedia
the financial,  moral & patriotic burden this invasion is bringing on the US.


And the world.



That is...

The Male Battle-Dwarf
#35 by Your Friend
2003-03-20 17:14:54

For the record, I wanted to add that I still believe that a nationwide draft could've alleviated the financial,  moral & patriotic burden this invasion is bringing on the US.


Huh?  I don't understand your logic...At all.  Can you explain it?

2000/XP is better than Win9x in every way.
#36 by Trolly McTroll
2003-03-20 17:16:46
Yes, explain yourself.

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - Wudi
#37 by UncleJeet
2003-03-20 17:18:10
So if it turns out that Saddam isn't using some elaborate 70's spy movie system of Syntha-Saddams, and we can verify that we "got 'em" at some point, will the war end then?  Since the whole point of the war is to remove Saddam from power, and he was even offered exile as a way to prevent the war, surely after we clearly establish that we "got 'em" - that'll be that.  Right?

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#38 by UncleJeet
2003-03-20 17:19:35
Oddly enough, I remember some conspiracy-fringe guys yammering about how Osama bin Laden might be using body doubles....of course, they were mocked and told to put on their tinfoil hats because it was such a ludicrously silly idea.  How things change....

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#39 by Your Friend
2003-03-20 17:20:55
Well, it depends what happens, of course.  The US has long been going on the theory that the people want Saddam out and once he and his top people are gone, they will rise up and welcome the American occupation.  If they are right, then things would go pretty smoothly from here on out..there would, of course, still be lots of minor cleanup operations to take out disjointed army units loyal to Saddam, etc..  If they are wrong, then things will get..interesting.

2000/XP is better than Win9x in every way.
#40 by Warren Marshall
2003-03-20 17:23:19
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Oddly enough, I remember some conspiracy-fringe guys yammering about how Osama bin Laden might be using body doubles....of course, they were mocked and told to put on their tinfoil hats because it was such a ludicrously silly idea.  How things change....

Even a broken clock is right sometimes.
#41 by UncleJeet
2003-03-20 17:25:00
Is a clock a sort of wheel of time sort of thing?

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#42 by Warren Marshall
2003-03-20 17:27:04
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Is a clock a sort of wheel of time sort of thing?

Only if it sucks.
#43 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-03-20 17:35:11
erictcheng@hotmail.com
Oddly enough, I remember some conspiracy-fringe guys yammering about how Osama bin Laden might be using body doubles....


How many 6'4" Arabs with a dialysis machine attached to them are there?

Even a broken clock is right sometimes.


Twice a day...

Kilt Wearing Pixel Pushing Monkey Boy
IMDB Entry
DVD Collection
#44 by Xero
2003-03-20 17:54:38
http://novakometa.blogspot.com/
I stopped reading Joe Public message boards because I don't want to read "even if you don't support the war, support the troops" any more.

In my opinion the US troops are paid workers, they weren't drafted and they aren't unpaid volunteers, they are men and women paid to kill or support those who will be doing the killing.

Every time a computer geek actually freaking pays for something, an angel gets its wings.
#45 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-03-20 17:55:58
erictcheng@hotmail.com
Even the 18-year olds whose sole job on a aircraft carrier is to restock the soft drink vending machines?

Kilt Wearing Pixel Pushing Monkey Boy
IMDB Entry
DVD Collection
#46 by Warren Marshall
2003-03-20 17:57:08
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
He chose the job.
#47 by deadlock
2003-03-20 17:57:12
http://www.deadlocked.org/
Your Friend:
The US has long been going on the theory that the people want Saddam out and once he and his top people are gone, they will rise up and welcome the American occupation.

There was an Irish-naturalised Iraqi woman interviewed on RTE this afternoon who made no bones about her detest for Saddam Hussein and his cronies. But when the presenter read a transcript of the speech that Col. Tim Collins made to the men under his command this morning (my Google-fu only turned up this Daily Mirror link - sorry), she got very upset and angry at what she sees as the arrogance of the West.

if you could just see the beauty
there's things i could never describe
#48 by Greg
2003-03-20 17:57:18
#44 Xero

In my opinion the US troops are paid workers, they weren't drafted and they aren't unpaid volunteers, they are men and women paid to kill or support those who will be doing the killing.
I might be wrong, but I don't think reservists aren't paid by the government. And yet, there they are in the Gulf.

blah blah bleh
#49 by Xero
2003-03-20 17:59:17
http://novakometa.blogspot.com/
They chose to be Reservists its a free will thing.

Every time a computer geek actually freaking pays for something, an angel gets its wings.
#50 by Leslie Nassar
2003-03-20 18:00:13
http://departmentofinternets.com
Even the 18-year olds whose sole job on a aircraft carrier is to restock the soft drink vending machines?

is that what the 18-year olds were trained to do when they went through boot camp?  they may be loading vending machines with cans of 7-Up now, but they could just as easily be loading shells into those big-ass guns.
#51 by deadlock
2003-03-20 18:03:42
http://www.deadlocked.org/
Greg:
I might be wrong, but I don't think reservists aren't paid by the government.

Bluh... Does that mean they are paid?

if you could just see the beauty
there's things i could never describe
#52 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-03-20 18:04:30
erictcheng@hotmail.com
CBC televsion have been interview a lot of Iraqi-Canadians lately. All of them DESPISE Saddam Hussein but on the other hand they're not cheering for this war. Why? They still have relatives and friends back in Iraq and their primary concern is for their loved ones. One thing I noticed is that they're upset at the Western governments "bargaining" the Iraqis people lives as if they're just tools and not treating them as fellow human beings.

Kilt Wearing Pixel Pushing Monkey Boy
IMDB Entry
DVD Collection
#53 by deadlock
2003-03-20 18:04:38
http://www.deadlocked.org/
Xero:
In my opinion the US troops are paid workers, they weren't drafted and they aren't unpaid volunteers, they are men and women paid to kill or support those who will be doing the killing.

Are the lives of any of their family members being held to ransom to ensure that they fight and don't just desert?

if you could just see the beauty
there's things i could never describe
#54 by Greg
2003-03-20 18:05:13
#44 Xero

In my opinion the US troops are paid workers, they weren't drafted and they aren't unpaid volunteers, they are men and women paid to kill or support those who will be doing the killing.

They chose to be Reservists its a free will thing.
Would you like to amend your first statement to remove the clause "and they aren't unpaid volunteers"?

blah blah bleh
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